Episode 15: Forgiveness

A compassionate resource list focused on forgiveness, self‑forgiveness, kindness, and emotional healing—combining personal stories, research‑based tools, faith‑centered reflections, and crisis support. These links offer practical guidance for processing hurt, setting healthy boundaries, growing in self‑compassion, and finding support when emotions feel overwhelming.

Greg
00:00 - 00:16
Welcome back to the Support and Kindness podcast. My name is Greg Shaw, and I'm your host. I'm here today with my co-hosts, Rich, Jay, Liam, Derek, Sam, and Sarah. Today, we're talking about something that's both beautiful and brutally hard, and that's forgiveness.

Greg
00:17 - 00:35
Forgiving the betrayals, the everyday hurts, people who will never say I'm sorry, and perhaps hardest of all, forgiving ourselves. If hearing the word forgiveness puts a knot in your chest, you're not alone. We're not here to guilt you, rush you or hand you a slogan like just let it go. We're here to explore what forgiveness really is and what it's not.

Greg
00:35 - 00:54
Why it matters for your mental and physical health and spiritual health. Why it can be so hard and what real patient and sincere forgiveness looks like in someone's life. Just a quick note, this podcast is for support, encouragement, and education only. It's not a substitute for therapy, medical care, or pastoral counseling.

Greg
00:55 - 01:08
So what do we mean by forgiveness? Well, let's start with some simple language. Psychologists often define forgiveness as choosing to let go of resentment and anger towards someone who hurt you. even if they never apologize.

Greg
01:08 - 01:25
Forgiveness is not a feeling, it's a choice in the process. It's not forgetting, you don't erase what happened. It's not saying that it was fine, it's not a weakness and it's certainly not the same as trust or reconciliation. You can forgive someone and still keep them out of your life.

Greg
01:26 - 01:46
You can forgive and still say what you did was wrong and I won't allow that to happen again. I sometimes picture forgiveness as putting down a heavy backpack that you've carried for years. The weight was real, the hurt was real, but at some point you can say, I don't want to carry this every day for the rest of my life. We often hear just let go.

Greg
01:46 - 02:06
People usually mean well by that, but sometimes it's used to avoid our pain. Telling someone to forgive can stop the healing. If you haven't looked at what happened, how it hurt you, What it costs you just letting go isn't forgiveness, it's hiding and hoping that it won't return. True forgiveness is honest.

Greg
02:06 - 02:25
It faces the wound instead of pretending it's not serious. Forgiveness researcher Everett Worthington talks about two kinds of forgiveness. Decisional forgiveness, this is where you decide I'm not going to seek revenge. I will treat this person in my heart and my actions as someone who still has value.

Greg
02:25 - 02:46
It's a conscious and moral choice and then there's emotional forgiveness. This is a deeper, slower part. It's when anger, hatred and bitterness slowly get replaced by empathy, compassion or at least a lesson in intensity and it can take a long time. You can decide to forgive long before your feelings catch up emotional forgiveness.

Greg
02:46 - 03:15
If you chose that but still fear sudden anger or pain, it doesn't mean that you did it wrong. it means that your heart and nervous system are still healing. Worthington's research shows that when people move towards forgiveness, they replay the hurt in their minds less, they often have less depression and anxiety, and their stress and some physical health markers improve. And he also created a practical tool called the REACH model for working on emotional forgiveness.

Greg
03:16 - 03:34
That's remember the hurt honestly and don't pretend it didn't matter. Emphasize when you can, see some of the offenders humanity without excusing their actions. Give an altruistic gift of forgiveness. Think of times when you were forgiven and commit to forgiveness.

Greg
03:34 - 03:50
Write it down, tell someone, pray, and hold on to forgiveness when the old anger returns. It won't fix everything, but it offers a path one small step at a time. Forgiveness affects our minds and bodies. Forgiveness isn't just a spiritual idea or a nice thought.

Greg
03:50 - 04:10
It also affects the body. Research from major medical centers show people who practice forgiveness often have lower stress and blood pressure. less anxiety and depression, better sleep, and sometimes less chronic pain. When we stay stuck in anger and resentment, our bodies stay in low-level fight or flight.

Greg
04:10 - 04:27
The muscles are tight, breathing shallow, and the heart rates up. Forgiveness doesn't mean that the hurt was small. It means we're slowly telling our nervous system that you don't have to stay on high alert about this. And then there's self-forgiveness and our much view.

Greg
04:28 - 04:39
For many of us, self-forgiveness is the hardest kind. We replay things that we did or we said, and we judge our past selves on today's knowledge. How could I have done that? What was wrong with me?

Greg
04:40 - 04:52
Alan's watch idea helps. Judging your past by today's standards is not fair. It's like blaming a child for not knowing calculus. Every mistake was part of learning.

Greg
04:53 - 05:11
You did the best you could with the understanding and emotions that you had then, even if that best was messy or harmful. Carrying old guilt is like dragging a sack of stones. The past isn't happening now, but replaying it keeps hurting you. Self-forgiveness doesn't mean it didn't matter.

Greg
05:12 - 05:21
It means it mattered. I'm learning from it, and I won't spend the rest of my life stuck on this. You're not the person who fell. You're the person who is learning.

Greg
05:22 - 05:36
Choose yourself first. Let me be clear. You can't make others value you by sacrificing and calling it forgiveness. True forgiveness respects your needs, your safety, and it's not just their comfort.

Greg
05:36 - 05:57
Sometimes the kindest thing for them and for you is to step back, set a boundary, or cut contact. Saying I no longer give you access to hurt me isn't unforgiving. You can choose safety and dignity first while also working to let go of resentment. Forgiveness is not a one-time event.

Greg
05:57 - 06:09
It's not a single moment that makes a hurt go away. You might decide to forgive and feel some relief. Then when you get triggered, you feel the anger and the hurt again. That doesn't mean that you failed.

Greg
06:09 - 06:22
You're human and grief has layers. You may need to repeat the process. Remember the hurt, tell yourself the truth again, recommit to forgiving, soften a little more. Healing is not linear.

Greg
06:22 - 06:35
Returning to forgiveness when it's right and safe for you can slowly loosen the hold on the past. This is really important. You can outgrow your past without denying it. You don't need to be perfect, you need to be whole.

Greg
06:35 - 06:46
Forgiving others and yourself is part of being whole. And then there's forgiveness, faith and Jesus Christ. For many, forgiveness is tied to faith. The Bible mentions forgiveness many times.

Greg
06:46 - 07:05
In the Lord's Prayer, we say forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us and that means God forgive me as I forgive others. On the cross Jesus says, Father forgive them for they know not what they're doing. And this shows how serious forgiveness is. It's not easy or cheap and it takes grace and strength beyond what we can feel.

Greg
07:05 - 07:27
Corrie Ten Boom survived a World War II concentration camp. Years later in Berlin after she spoke, a man told her that he'd been a guard at that camp and he said he'd become a Christian and he'd read that God forgives and he believed that Jesus had forgiven him. Then he asked her to forgive him. Memories of her sister's pain and the guard's cruelty flooded Corrie.

Greg
07:28 - 07:47
She felt that she couldn't forgive him on her own, and she stayed frozen. She remembered Jesus' command to forgive, but she knew that she didn't have that kind of love. She prayed, trusting Romans 5.5, which says, God's love is poured into the heart by the Holy Spirit. And she prayed, Jesus, I can't forgive him, but you can.

Greg
07:48 - 08:06
So she chose to lift her hand. As she did, she felt warmth, love, and her words and love moved her arm like God's love reaching the man. She called it one of the deepest experiences of God's love in her life and her message is, can you forgive? No, neither can I, but he can.

Greg
08:06 - 08:26
This doesn't erase the horror or mean everyone must forgive in the same way or on the same timetable. It shows the forgiveness can come as strength as we receive one step at a time. Now that we've laid the groundwork, let's start the conversation. I'll ask each of the co-hosts a question based on real struggles with forgiveness.

Greg
08:26 - 08:44
Issues that people have posted about online or brought up in support groups or that might face in daily life. Each of you can answer from your own experience, faith and view. Rich, I'll start with you. People often ask, Can you forgive someone but not let them back into your life?

Greg
08:44 - 08:54
How do you keep healthy boundaries while letting go of resentment? From your experience, how do you balance wisdom and forgiveness? And I'll give you two or three minutes to respond.

Rich
08:55 - 09:05
That's great. That's a deep and very human question. In my experience, forgiveness and access are related, but they're not the same thing. Confusing them is where a lot of pain comes from.

Rich
09:05 - 09:23
You can forgive someone without letting them back into your life. Forgiveness is an internal process, while reconciliation is a relational one. One is about your peace and the other is about mutual safety and trust. Here's how I've seen people balance forgiveness and wisdom.

Rich
09:24 - 09:43
Forgiveness is about release, not reunion. Forgiveness means you stop carrying the emotional debt, resentment, rumination, the need for revenge. It does not mean pretending the harm didn't happen. You can forgive and say, what happened matters, and I won't place myself back in harm's way.

Rich
09:44 - 09:54
Boundaries are not punishment. They're information. Healthy boundaries aren't about teaching someone a lesson. They're about responding honestly to reality.

Rich
09:54 - 10:08
A simple internal boundary sounds like, based on their past behavior, this level of access isn't safe for me. That's wisdom, not bitterness. Trust is rebuilt by patterns, not apologies. Forgiveness can be immediate.

Rich
10:09 - 10:25
Trust must be earned slowly. Someone may be genuinely sorry and still not capable of a healthy relationship. Wisdom asks, has their behavior changed consistently? Do they respect my boundaries without argument?

Rich
10:25 - 10:37
Do I feel calmer or more anxious around them? Your nervous system is often a better guide than logic. You can wish someone well from a distance. Forgiveness doesn't require proximity.

Rich
10:37 - 10:49
That's been very important in my life. I found just the forgiveness doesn't require proximity. You can hold compassion while choosing separation. This often sounds like, I hope you heal.

Rich
10:49 - 11:00
I just won't be close enough to be wounded again. That's not a coldness, that's self-respect. Letting go is a practice, not a switch. Resentment fades in layers.

Rich
11:00 - 11:46
Some days you feel free, other days the memories string again. That doesn't mean you failed at forgiveness, it means you're human. Letting go often sounds like refusing to replay the story, gently redirecting your thoughts, choosing peace again and again these are all part of letting go part of forgiveness the balancing point i found is forgiveness softens the heart wisdom protects it when both are present you're no longer driven by anger or by guilt you're simply responding to truth with clarity so that's what i found thanks greg thank you rich question for jay so jay a common question many people say i forgave them but i still feel angry or triggered

Greg
11:47 - 11:58
What did I do wrong? Why do we still feel pain after deciding to forgive? And how do you handle those aftershocks without shaming yourself or without thinking that your forgiveness didn't count?

Jay
11:58 - 12:14
Thanks, Greg. I would have to say that just because you feel angry, sad, and triggered does not mean that you did it wrong. I think that just because you forgive doesn't mean you necessarily forget. And forgiveness is a totally different thing than forgetting what happened.

Jay
12:14 - 12:40
You're going to have that emotional toll always in your life, especially depending on the severity of what your forgiveness is for. And you're going to have pain before and after deciding to forgive. And how you handle those aftershocks, I think, can be helpful if you discuss it with a loved one, a group member, a therapist. I think all three of those are important.

Jay
12:41 - 12:45
And the emotional toll is never going to go away, but that doesn't mean that you did it wrong.

Greg
12:45 - 12:49
And yeah, that's it for me. Thank you, Jay. I appreciate that. Question for Liam.

Greg
12:49 - 13:01
One of the most painful situations is this. How do you forgive someone who isn't sorry and they won't apologize. From your view, how do you work towards forgiveness in your heart when there's no apology, no accountability, and no closure?

Liam
13:02 - 13:15
Good question. Thanks, Greg. I have a couple instances in my life that are pertinent to this question. One I can think of has to do with my mother.

Liam
13:16 - 13:56
When I was 18, she committed an act of betrayal on me that was extremely painful and created a lifelong rift between us. And the reason I picked this instance is because we never really, she never acknowledged her part in it. And So I don't think I ever really forgave her in life, and she ended up getting dementia. And that was extremely difficult because I always thought to myself, oh, there will be time to forgive.

Liam
13:56 - 14:59
And so that was very difficult because at that point I wished I had made more of an attempt to reconcile with her. So I've had to make my forgiveness with her in that situation posthumously. And that isn't necessarily the most gratifying because both parties aren't there to maybe enjoy the forgiveness so I would say maybe my answer isn't that great to this question because I didn't do a very good job of forgiving but I guess what my point is is don't wait to forgive because you never know if if you will get a chance to again so hopefully that's a decent answer although it might not be exactly to the point of the question, but thank you, Greg.

Liam
14:59 - 15:01
Thank you, Liam. I appreciate that.

Greg
15:01 - 15:18
A question for Derek. Let's go deep for a minute. Betrayal, cheating, broken trust, these are all events that can offend someone's life. For someone thinking, I don't think I'll ever be able to forgive this, what realistic steps can they take and how can they be gentle with themselves if they're not ready to forgive you?

Derek
15:18 - 15:35
Hi, Greg. Thank you for asking that question. I, I stew in thoughts like this plenty of times, and I use the word stew because I let it get the best of me. To recognize it is fine, but to let it overwhelmingly consume you, Maybe not the best bet.

Derek
15:36 - 15:57
And a little bit of what you had asked Liam is something that I dwell with combined with the questions you just asked me. There have been plenty of times where arguments and disagreements have occurred and pride and ego are fueling factors for both parties. But then, and we get heated and words are said, did you mean them? Maybe not.

Derek
15:57 - 16:30
Is there a little bit of validity? Yada, yada. But then I take a step back after the fact and regardless of how our relationship ended there were moments where it was kismet like our paths were meant to cross and i embrace all the good times i'm not going to negate the entirety of our relationship but many lessons were learned wonderful moments that i would never take back had happened and I will still always lovingly embrace that.

Derek
16:31 - 17:21
And whether both parties or one or none are too pig-headed, regardless of why it hasn't been redeemed or remedied, I will always embrace and cherish those and learn from it, regardless of the end result and the outcome, learning from it. So then hopefully it will not repeat in the future or if something does happen again, that's along the same lines, how can we diminish the possibility of the worst case scenario this time? So it's experience, you've learned from it, but to negate any beneficial outcome for the next time, that means everything's been lost for nothing. So yeah, and also kind of, I heard earlier, yeah, you can forgive, but not forget.

Derek
17:22 - 17:47
never forget, never forget, never forget, because that would be folly. And I try to, whenever I find myself getting caught up in these scenarios, Take a step back, breathe, embrace what's there like, take a step back, look around you, see where you are in your life. I have a home, I have a warm, safe bed. I have the option to take a hot shower.

Derek
17:47 - 18:06
These are so many things that many, many people, myself, plenty of times, We just don't, let's not take some of the simple pleasures in life for granted. And that helps bring me back. That helps ground me. And that helps me just relax, take a deep breath.

Derek
18:06 - 18:26
And I just try to cut the crap so I don't have to put myself or anyone else through this again. So then I don't dwell, so that I don't sink. And I just try to, I just try to do the best I can with what I got whenever this happens, so. I hope that answers or gives you some insight for my perspective of that, of those questions.

Greg
18:27 - 18:34
Thank you, Derek. I appreciate that. Question for Sam. Sam, many people struggle to forgive their parents or their family.

Greg
18:34 - 18:50
This might come from childhood hurts, patterns that affected their self-worth or ongoing painful dynamics. Here's the question. A lot of people have trouble forgiving their parents and family. What does healthy forgiveness look like in these situations, especially when you still have to see those family members?

Derek
18:51 - 18:52
Okie dokie, Poki.

Sam
18:52 - 19:00
Let's give it a go. So, I have some experience with this. I don't forgive anybody. Nope, just kidding.

Sam
19:00 - 19:19
I'm working on that. I keep a notebook, though. So, anyways, don't get in the notebook. But yeah, so I think what it came to, I think like piggybacking off of Liam, with like my father, there was a time where I was, it was like, I didn't know which one was going to die first.

Sam
19:20 - 19:34
So I was like, I don't want to hold on to any bullshit. And he probably doesn't even really care. But anyways, I did. I was like, I just, I got a freaking, I can't hold on to shit no more.

Sam
19:34 - 19:42
I just couldn't. So I was just kind of like that. And he is who he is. And that's just the way it is.

Rich
19:42 - 19:47
Once I did it with my father, I had to, of course, look at that with my mother.

Sam
19:47 - 20:09
And also moving 1900 miles away helps very, very much. And I don't have a vehicle, so I don't have money to goes anywhere. So that's, it's working beautifully for the most part. But yeah, I'm actually, I'm working on, I've been working on forgiveness for quite a while and I'm a slow learner, but I'll get there.

Sam
20:10 - 20:15
I hope that helped, I guess a little bit. We'll see. Hey, yeah. Okay.

Greg
20:15 - 20:32
Thank you, Sam. I appreciate, I appreciate that Sam. Sarah, question for you on when you're not ready to forgive and feel pressured to do so. One of the things that we hear a lot about, especially in faith spaces, families, and even in therapy sessions is some version of you just need to forgive and move on.

Greg
20:32 - 20:52
But a lot of people listening might be thinking, I'm not ready to forgive. And honestly, all this pressure just makes me feel worse. So the question is, what would you say to someone who's not ready to forgive yet, but feels guilty or pressured because people keep telling them, let it go? How can they honor their own pace while still moving towards healing?

Sarah
20:53 - 21:07
Okay, so growing up in a religious household, I heard this a lot. And I think it made me way too easy to forgive. Like, I forgive a little too easily. And now I just tell everybody to get over it and move on.

Sarah
21:08 - 21:28
And I think I'm the one telling everybody to move on and get over it and I want everybody to, you know, I'm kind of the peacekeeper. But I don't know. I think that, honestly, it just takes a lot of therapy. I really don't think that you can be ready to forgive anybody until you work your own way through it.

Sarah
21:29 - 21:48
I think that forgiveness is more about you than it is about anybody else. And I think it's more for you than it is for anyone else. I think that a lot of these questions, like just forgiving somebody who hasn't apologized and forgiving, you know, Forget them. It's about you and it puts you at peace.

Sarah
21:49 - 22:03
It rests your own soul and it puts your own body at rest. And I don't know, it stirs your own soul. for the rest of your life, you know what I mean? Kind of reset your body.

Sarah
22:03 - 22:39
And I think that others might do you wrong and they will, and you can't control that. And I've done a lot of people wrong and I try to apologize, but I know that I haven't apologized for everything that I've done to others. And I hope that I'm forgiven for the things that I've done to people, but I do really think that it just takes a lot of therapy on everybody's part to kind of work through it. And sometimes it's two people and sometimes you just gotta do the work on your own.

Greg
22:39 - 22:41
I don't know. That's just kind of my take.

Sarah
22:41 - 22:46
Thank you, Sarah. I appreciate that. We're going to switch things up a little bit now that we've put everyone on the spot.

Greg
22:46 - 22:50
Rich, I believe we've got a question that you would like to ask me.

Rich
22:50 - 23:08
Greg, we've talked about forgiving others, but many say the hardest person to forgive is themselves. Here's the question. Self-forgiveness often feels the hardest. When your mistakes cause shame, how do you handle self-talk without letting guilt destroy your self-worth?

Greg
23:08 - 23:27
You know, I should have changed these questions around is my first reaction to this because That self-forgiveness is the hardest thing and one that I struggle with. And they say that that's the hardest thing to do is forgive ourselves. And I certainly struggle with that. I've done all the things that I'm sorry for and I beat myself up with them regularly.

Greg
23:27 - 23:42
It's still a work in progress for me to be quite honest and truthful about it. Shame is one of the most useless emotions around. Shame doesn't serve any purpose whatsoever. I feel a lot of shame sometimes when I think about the things that I've done.

Greg
23:42 - 24:13
Well, when I think about the mistakes that I've made, how do I handle my self-talk? Well, I think about Alan Watts, you know, we were doing the best we can with what we had to work with at the time. We all come from different upbringings and backgrounds and families that we don't choose and families are not healthy places a lot of the time. We learn sometimes or don't learn how to cope and sometimes we act from what we're familiar with, even when that's not healthy.

Greg
24:13 - 24:25
And we do things to hurt other people. When we see people in our families getting hurt, sometimes we hurt other people as well, unintentionally. We say things or we don't say things. We do things or we don't do things.

Greg
24:25 - 24:43
The most important thing is not to beat oneself up about it because we can't change the past. In recovery, they say we shall not regret the past nor wish to close the door on it. And I used to struggle with that a lot, thinking, what do they mean? We can learn from it, but we can't, you know, we can't go back.

Greg
24:43 - 24:53
We can't turn back time. And hindsight is everything. And the most important thing is to try and do the next best thing that you can do. If it's possible, make amends to that person.

Greg
24:54 - 25:04
In Alcoholics Anonymous, they add after that, they say, except to do so will harm them or others. And I believe in that. We might not always get a chance to make amends. So what do we do then?

Greg
25:04 - 25:25
Maybe that person is no longer with us and we can't make amends, but we've still got to continue. And that's something that I struggle and I fight with every day. And when I work it out, I'll I'll give you a bit of a better answer to that but in all honesty, it's very difficult and it takes work every day. and something that I'm still really struggling with.

Greg
25:25 - 25:40
I hope that helps. So let's do a round now that's called what's on your heart this week. I'll give each one of you a minute or so to share what's on your heart this week. It could be about forgiveness, kindness, mental health, gratitude, anything at all that you want listeners to hear.

Greg
25:40 - 25:45
Think of it as a check-in with the listeners. Rich, I'll start with you. What's in your heart this week?

Rich
25:45 - 26:30
Just like forgiveness is an internal thing, I think something that we need to do for the people in our lives and for ourselves is express gratitude as a external expression. It makes, it gives back, I've said it before on previous podcasts, that it, it pays back twofold. When you express gratitude, you yourself feel a boost and the person that you express gratitude to experiences the boost from your expression of gratitude. So it's, it's something that I, I encourage you all to work on just the simplest action, totally catch somebody off guard for it.

Rich
26:30 - 26:53
Something that seems outrageous to thank somebody for. Thank them for it this week. or express gratitude or be grateful for them you know I'm grateful for each one of you in this podcast and I'm grateful for each one of you listeners but find something that you can express gratitude for and do so this week. Jay how about you what would you like to leave people with today?

Jay
26:53 - 27:19
I want to talk about the self-forgiveness thing. One of the hardest things I ever had to do was forgive myself for being an addict and an alcoholic and destroying my family's lives as I grew up. My father was an alcoholic and he quit drinking when I was 12 or 13 and I should have followed in his footsteps. I should have seen what it did to him.

Jay
27:19 - 28:00
Instead, I decided I was going to have to experience it for myself and that I was going to go even harder than he did. That also brings up guilt and shame. I felt guilt and shame for many, many years when I'd be in Alcoholics Anonymous and they'd try and have a topic to bring up for the conversation. I always brought up guilt and shame because it took me so many years to get over the fact that I destroyed cars, I spent countless times in rehab, and That really wrecked my family's lives in many ways and one of the hardest things I had to do was

Jay
28:00 - 28:21
forgive myself for that. I'm happy to say that I have just over 11 years of sobriety and it's taken a long time. Probably the first five years all I did was feel guilt and shame from it. No one wants to see a loved one hurt or hurt on a daily basis.

Jay
28:21 - 28:36
No one chooses when nobody picks up a substance and says, you know what, I'm going to be addicted to this. And it took me a long time to realize that. But yeah, the hardest forgiveness I've ever had to do is forgiving myself for the things I did to others. And that's it.

Jay
28:36 - 28:39
Thank you, Jay. Liam, what's been on your heart lately?

Liam
28:39 - 29:13
I would say staying with the forgiveness subject. I mentioned a story about my mother earlier. On a better note, a story with my father, who is still living, and we also had very tumultuous relationship. And I'm happy to say that at least we are attempting to form some kind of relationship albeit still an odd one.

Liam
29:13 - 30:01
It's strained still, but we're both attempting to forgive the past, maybe forget the past. And honestly, I don't even know if I'm doing forgiveness correctly, because sometimes To me, it does include forgetting some things, and I don't know if that's the correct way to forgive, by just forgetting something. Maybe that is a way of forgiving it, is just forgetting it, because that's maybe the only way two people can get past something. And you can forgive yourself in your own way internally for things you've done and and hope that the other party is doing the same.

Liam
30:01 - 30:16
But I think it's just important to attempt to have a relationship rather than let not forgiving or not forgetting keep you from doing something like that. So I'll leave it at that. Thanks, Greg. Thanks, Liam.

Derek
30:16 - 30:49
Derek, what would you like to leave with listeners this week? Hi, well, I've been listening to what everyone has been saying and a few things piqued my interest, but initially my, my thought was for myself, it's, I know that it's human nature to hyper focus on the negative stuff first for whatever reason. But then I just try, like what I was saying earlier, I just remind myself to take a step back, breathe. Be grateful, look around, look at the bliss that you're surrounded amongst and within.

Derek
30:49 - 31:23
And I, even if it's seemingly mundane or minute fleeting moment, I like living in that moment with sometimes complete strangers. I will see someone at the grocery store and I'll, I never met them. Our eyes lock. And then I'm like, that's a fantastic haircut or that's a beautiful smile or you'll just listen to some music that someone else is listening to on the radio and you're like damn good tune that reminds me of this this this and this and it's just these small brief

Derek
31:23 - 31:47
moments of heart warmth and connection that helps keep me going and I think that helps others, you know, keep on trucking as well. And there is unity, like there is, there wouldn't be a universe without connection and unity when whatever way you perceive that to be. So let's just make the most of it, even for quote unquote fleeting moment. And that helps bring me back to reality.

Derek
31:47 - 32:02
And it helps remove me from a somewhat negative situation. So then when I go back into it, I have more of a clear thought. clear head, and I'm not so heated with my negative emotions and thought processes. So there's my random banter about that.

Greg
32:03 - 32:04
Thank you, Derek.

Derek
32:04 - 32:05
Sam, what's on your heart right now?

Sam
32:05 - 33:08
You know, it takes a lot of energy to hate someone, a lot of resources, and it's and like being a recovering addict as well you know I don't have that much resources anyways to freaking hate and everything else it's uh living is not for the weak that's for sure and carrying all that it's like freaking and quick you're like in quicksand the more you constantly move the freaking You know, the quicker you sink and it's, it's hard, but you have to try to find a way to work through that and therapy or whatever it is. But I'm grateful for my recovery and I'm grateful for the people I've found here in Ohio and there I'm finding more and more, which is something that I never thought that I would really want, people can suck, but you find the right ones. They're pretty cool.

Greg
33:09 - 33:16
But yeah, that's about it. It's all I got. Thank you, Sam. Sarah, what would you like to share with our listeners today?

Sarah
33:16 - 33:25
Figuring out how to unmute. Yes. So a couple of things. First, I'm totally carrying what Rich and Derek said into this week because it was awesome.

Jay
33:25 - 33:30
Also, ditto Sam. Humans can suck, but you guys are pretty cool.

Sarah
33:30 - 34:08
And I know I was all high and mighty about my therapy, but I agree that self-forgiveness has been the hardest forgiveness to therapy out of myself. I have been able to therapy forgive everyone else, but therapy forgiving myself has been the hardest therapy forgiveness I have had to obtain. So yeah, that's all I got for the week. But also, yeah, carry beauty into this week because it's snowing and it's gorgeous and it's really cold.

Sarah
34:08 - 34:15
So stay inside and stay warm, but enjoy the beautiful snow. Thank you, Sarah. Thank you, Greg.

Greg
34:15 - 34:31
What are your final thoughts? For me, I'm grateful for everyone that's on the podcast today and for everyone's heart. And I'm also grateful for anyone that's listening either this week, next week or next year. I'd echo with something that Richard said, this is a support and kindness podcast.

Greg
34:31 - 34:42
And we're great believers in kindness as well. And I would echo and double down on what Richard said. Be kind to someone this week and be kind to yourself this week. Find one thing that you can be.

Greg
34:42 - 35:05
kind to somebody for, and be grateful for, pay a compliment. One of the easiest things to do, and it's not easy for me because I don't go many places, right? But I do speak on the phone a lot. And so if I've talked to someone and they've just made me feel comfortable on the phone, or they answered my question, and I didn't get anxious, because, you know, I can get anxious in a minute, but the call was a good call.

Greg
35:05 - 35:15
I'll say, hey, what was your name? And I'll say, do you have a boss that I can say thank you just for your help today? It's great. You hear their demeanor pick up, right?

Greg
35:15 - 35:28
And then the supervisor comes on the line and they're braced because supervisors only get called when there's a complaint. And you say, Hey, I just want to thank you for your, you know, your, your associate Jane. She did a great job on the call. She answered my questions and put me at ease.

Greg
35:29 - 35:44
And they're like, oh yeah, Jane's a great word, thank you so much. You know, you get a two for the price of one, there's nothing like it. So we can be kind without having to go out of our ways. People want to change the world and that's great and all, but let's start with our own community, right?

Greg
35:44 - 35:55
Let's start with the shutting at the end of the street that never gets out. Let's start with the person who's in the coffin that never gets thanks, that only hears bad things. So that's what's on my heart this week. Thank you, Rich.

Greg
35:56 - 36:03
So just to recap, as we wrap up, here's some key takeaways. Forgiveness is a process. It's not instant. An apology doesn't fix everything.

Greg
36:04 - 36:14
Deep hurt needs time, truth and grief and often support. There's two kinds of forgiveness. There's decisional. There's choosing not to seek revenge but still seeing the person as human.

Greg
36:14 - 36:24
And there's emotional, which is a slower release of resentment. Deciding to forgive before your feelings catch up is okay. It's not a failure. Forgiveness isn't the same as reconciliation.

Greg
36:24 - 36:39
You can forgive while keeping strong boundaries and protecting your safety and your dignity. Self-forgiveness matters. Owning mistakes is important, but constant self-blame doesn't heal. You can grow and you are more than your own worst mistake.

Greg
36:40 - 36:56
Forgiveness is a practice. You may revisit the pain many times and that's why the part is healing. It's not a sign that you're broken. Finally, especially from a faith perspective, we see that forgiveness is serious, costly, and often beyond our own strength.

Greg
36:56 - 37:21
From Jesus praying, Father, please forgive them, to Corrie Ten Boom reaching their hand out to the former God saying, no, I can't forgive him, but you can. If you're listening and thinking, I'm not ready to forgive, that's okay. Your next step might just be, I'm open to the idea that one day forgiveness might be part of my healing, but I'm not going to rush it. It's a brave and honest place to be.

Greg
37:21 - 37:39
To my co-hosts, Rich, Jay, Liam, Derek, Sam, Sarah, thank you for your wisdom, your honesty, and your heart today. And to whoever you are, thank you for spending the time with us. Before we close, here are some forgiveness and kindness resources which are linked in the show notes. There's two videos by Brene Brown.

Greg
37:39 - 38:09
There's a link from Everett Worthington talking about his REACH model. There's a reflection by Alan Watts and there's a excerpt from Corrie Ten Boom actually telling her story. If this episode mattered to you, share it with someone who might be struggling and unsure whether forgiveness is possible. until next time be kind to yourself be kind to others give your heart and your time space to heal links will be clickable and in the show notes thank you everyone have a good one